When Dr. Anthony Fauci and Sunday Morning special collaborator Ted Koppel first met in the room, distance interviews were still a novelty, and the nation was focused on a global epidemic called HIV-AIDS. Koppel, then on ABC’s “Nightline,” asked Fauci, “How optimistic are you about a vaccine?”
“Two vaccines are in phase 1 to establish safety, but it won’t be until the 1990s that we’re lucky to have a vaccine. It won’t be until at least 1995,” he said.
Even 33 years ago, Fauci had a wide national following, but especially among AIDS activists who were often extremely critical; and he had not yet inspired any video, T-shirts, coffee mugs, or suggestions of imminent holiness, as he had recently done.
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“Oh, my God,” said Fauci, after being shown a very holy portrait of himself. “My nuns in Our Lady of Guadalupe in Brooklyn would return to their graves when they see this!”
There are also other types of jaw artifacts:
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And then there’s a July 22 Sinclair Broadcasting video, “America This Week,” in which a former researcher on chronic fatigue syndrome, Dr. Judy Mikovits, said, “I think Dr. Fauci made coronaviruses.”
“You know, Ted, I think this is a dramatic example of the division in our country,” Fauci said. “We had a complete distortion and a throw away of scientific facts and evidence. And a certain part of the country thought it was a farce, a false news.
“The other half longed for clarity, longed for deeds, longed for truth. So, for better or worse, for one reason or another, I became an unrealistic symbol. Like St. Anthony. You know, it’s kind of good, OK, great, but that’s not the reality.
“On the other hand, I had people who threatened my life because I was talking about public health measures,” Fauci said.
Koppel said, “We have some videos of you and your wife going through a security detail. Did it get to that?”
“Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. I’ve sparked such animosity that I have to have federal agents, armed federal agents, with me, like always.”
“Have your children been threatened?”
“I have to tell you, I’m not afraid of me, for me,” Fauci said. “But what really bothers me is the harassment, the constant harassment, of my three daughters. Crazy people, you know, you know who they are, I know where they live, I know their phone number, I know where they work. It makes me angry. “
Koppel said, “Let’s talk about us, America. Here we are, we have 4% of the world’s population. There have been two million deaths worldwide. If we had our share, we would have 80,000.”
“Right.”
“It simply came to our notice then five times that number. ”
“Right.”
– I was an extreme failure, Tony.
“Uh, huh. Yeah. The reasons for that, Ted, I don’t think I can articulate them all, but some of them stand out because I’ve lived them. You can’t have mixed messages. You can’t politicize public health messages. That is, the idea that wearing a mask or not has become a political statement? That makes it difficult to implement a good public health measure. “
Koppel said, “You have a very expressive face. And there’s a moment – you’ll know instantly what I’m talking about – in the White House press room. I want you to finally reveal what went through your mind during that briefing.” .
“Well,” Fauci said, “the one I think you’re referring to is when we were in that situation where we’re talking about hydroxychloroquine.”
President Trump: “It might work, it might not work. I feel good about it. That’s all, it’s just a feeling. You know, smart guy.”
“And he was up there talking about it and I just think I went that way (put your hand forward).”
“Yes.”
“I did it instinctively. And I was just saying to myself in a way, Oh God!, and, unfortunately, this has become the image that has shaken the whole world. “
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“People have reached a point where they don’t understand this about President Trump: He can actually be an extraordinarily charming man,” Koppel said.
“Yes. You’re right,” Fauci said. “He is a charismatic person. I got along very, very well with him. But I did not like having to correct clear distortions in the field of medicine and science.”
Fauci: “I’m not absolutely sure what the president was talking about …”
“That upset, I think, his staff, his loyal staff, in some ways even more than annoyed him. So then things started to go in the wrong direction.”
President Trump: “He has a high approval rating. So why don’t I have a high approval rating with respect – and administration – on the virus?”
“So, the relationship has become a bit broken. And then, when I saw him in the oval office, he would behave as if everything was fine.
“And then I had that famous time when people were chanting ‘Fire Jaws! Fire Jaws! And he said, “Hey, that’s not a bad idea. I think I will do that. “
President Trump at a rally on November 1: “Don’t tell anyone, but let me wait until after the election. He was very wrong. He is a nice man, however, he was very wrong.”
Koppel asked, “With more consistent leadership, we could have saved a lot of lives. Is that a correct statement?”
“Yes, I think so,” Fauci replied. “I mean, I think if we had received the public health messages – from the top right to the people in the trenches – we would be consistent, that things could have been different. In fact, I’m pretty sure it would have been different. “
It is a measure of Tony Fauci’s endurance that, at the age of 80, he has just taken up a new title, working for Joe Biden – the seventh president – as senior medical adviser.
“What we will see in the coming months is much more of a coordinated and synergistic partnership between the federal government and the states,” Fauci said. “So I think we’re going to see a change in attitude when the federal government and the states start working together a lot more, as opposed to ‘You’re on your own.’
“Yeah, but I mean, you’ve already spoken and experienced your own regret, the poison of existing partisanship. That won’t go away, Tony.”
“Well, no, it’s not. What, on average, about 200,000 to 300,000 infections a day; about 3,000 to 4,000 deaths a day? I mean, you have to look at those numbers and say, ‘ We have to do something different. ‘”
Koppel said: “Your first big challenge will be to be able to take the vaccines in your arms.”
“Things are getting better right now; but they will get much better, because President Biden has made it very clear that this is his top priority. You know that the goal, which I think is completely achievable, is to have 100 million people vaccinated in the first 100 days … primary and stimulating. “
– In 100 days?
– Yes Yes.
“Do you realize that you are preparing for disaster if you do not meet this goal?” Koppel asked.
“Of course, and that’s one of the things that was kind of invigorating in one of the first briefings I had with President Biden and Vice President Harris, is that he said, ‘We might have some setbacks. we will not point fingers. We will not blame people. We will not hide anything. We will be totally transparent and honest and we will try to fix it. ‘”
“We’ve had four years, Tony, from above – undermining trust in all of our institutions: intelligence, the FBI, the media, science. It’s been a pandemic like this, hasn’t it?”
“He has,” Fauci said. “And we have to fix it. We have to. Because the country is at stake.”
“Do you have any thoughts on how to get started? There is no vaccination for that.”
“No, there is no vaccination. But I think we need to continue to show, for example, that being united is much, much better than being divisive. Because the division has really failed. I mean, it has failed us in every way.”
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Story produced by Dustin Stephens. Editor: Steven Tyler.